Well, the last time I spoke to a WT follower, he had this looook in his eye.............
Cheers
moggy lover
JoinedPosts by moggy lover
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17
Pay it forward...
by AuldSoul inokay, so in line with the concept of the movie pay it forward, how can jws best save the most people?.
(1) murder is a sin.. (2) people who are repentant of sins are forgiven.. (3) people who go to hell (the common grave of mankind) are still alive in god's eyes, just sleeping.. (4) ergo, if a jw sends someone to hell the jw hasn't sinned.. now, that gets the basic doctrine stuff out of the way.. if every jw kills one thousand non-jw people there will be about 6,000,000 jws left.
if every one of these repents over the deaths of whichever ones didn't go to hell, they will have saved way more people than they ever can by preaching.. and, if by chance they miss out on everlasting life by helpig someone else to attain it: no greater love has any.... any questions?
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42
1973 District Convention
by frozen one ini spent the weekend with some relatives.
they have an fairly extensive library of jw material going back 50 years in their spare bedroom.
i was looking at a few items when i found a program for the divine victory convention held in winnipeg, manitoba in 1973. the convention lasted 5 days.
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moggy lover
S2, Yes, I can confirm this.
The tract was called KN no 16: "Is Time running out for Mankind"? My notes, in fading green ink, tell me that there was to be a ten day period in Dec 73, when this was to be distributed door-to-door. My notes also tell me that the speaker [sorry dont remember, did'nt take his name down, but something tells me he was from NY Bethel] mentioned that this work was of such importance that breaking a leg would be the only excuse allowed for not participating.
Cheers
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26
Would you say yes to a blood transfusion?
by Fisherman ini would like to get some honest answers about your position on blood transfusion.
as we get older, sooner or later we wind up in the hospital and the question they always ask is"...in the event.. would you accept blood?
" faced with that question, i answered no.
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moggy lover
Yes. In fact, already have. In 95 I was diagnosed with colon cancer and prior to surgery was told that because I was so anemic [lacking in hemoglobin] I needed a massive blood transfusion which would last 16 hours.
My gratitude went to the anonymous donor who has enabled me to live again. Thanks pal.
Cheers
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42
1973 District Convention
by frozen one ini spent the weekend with some relatives.
they have an fairly extensive library of jw material going back 50 years in their spare bedroom.
i was looking at a few items when i found a program for the divine victory convention held in winnipeg, manitoba in 1973. the convention lasted 5 days.
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moggy lover
We in Aussie had ours in Sydney at the refurbished Randwick Racecourse. I had just been made an elder, had attended elder school, and was flushed with excitement at the prospect of the soon-to-happen "End of the World" as we know it. We went in a motor convoy with three cars from Perth to Sydney. A journey that took us, if I remember correctly, five days.
One of the gladdest moments of the journey was when we entered the town of Berri, in South Australia, we saw this sign strewn across the street: Berri congregation of JWs welcomes delegates to the DV DAssy.
Even remember the convention releases: Gods Kingdom of a thousand years, and the one book that is, I believe, next to KIT in its value as a WT publication, The Comprehensive Concordance to the NWT. My copy says: Released at the Divine Victory District Assy 18th Dec 1973, Sydney NSW
In fact the elder arrangement had only just begun, in 1971, and one CO made the remark, evidently with the blessing of WT HQ, that jehoover had revealed this to the GB only now, because the GB was going to need this arrangement to govern the New System effectively soon. Heady stuff.
Also all nonsense.
Cheers
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19
Comments You Will Not Hear at the 1-14-07 WT Study (Love Neighbor)
by blondie incomments you will not hear at the 01-14-07 wt study (december 1, 2006, pages 25-29)(love neighbor).
review comments will be in red.
wt material from today's wt will be in black.
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moggy lover
Thanks again, Blondie great work as usual. I often wondered who the priest and levite would picture. Makes sense.
The story of the Good Samaritan has become one of the most truly inspired pieces of literature ever told, and more is the pity that the WTS, while at the same time claiming to be God's only true prophets, yet spends so little time on letting this simple narrative move them to good and noble deeds, benefitting all humankind. To them its only purpose is to serve as an intellectual vehicle for justifying the making of more converts and screening the R&F from outsiders.
Great job, as usual
Cheers
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17
Looking for info on the WTS development of baptism ?'s & requirement's
by jwfacts inin a recent thread blondie mentioned that the baptism questions were not introduced until the 1960s.
what do an interested person have to do prior to then in order to be allowed to be baptised?.
it got me thinking about the wts justification for the questions.
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moggy lover
Hi, jwfacts, and Atlantis: Just an update to what I wrote previously. It appears that RF's obsevations were merely a summary of WT historical development, because some more information has emerged. Based on what RF wrote on pg 117, I might have implied that the use of public questions began in 1942, with the questions quoted therein. However it was while consulting this site, on an unrelated matter that I discovered, in the section listed as "Baptismal Questions" some additional information:
http//www.food4jws.com
According to this site, which is a Russellite Bible Student site, Russell did have a system of asking the potential recruit to answer two questions. The questions are listed, and do contain a reference to the Holy Spirit. The authority cited is given as "What Pastor Russell said" pg 35 Unfortunately RF makes no mention of this.
There is also a reference to a Wt of Feb 1, 1945, pg 44, which also lists a revised form of questions and which RF also does not mention.
Cheers
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17
Looking for info on the WTS development of baptism ?'s & requirement's
by jwfacts inin a recent thread blondie mentioned that the baptism questions were not introduced until the 1960s.
what do an interested person have to do prior to then in order to be allowed to be baptised?.
it got me thinking about the wts justification for the questions.
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moggy lover
Atlantis: Thanks a million for the scans of the article from the Wt. Yes, pleeeeease, I'm sure we love to see the originals of the Wts that RF was using.
THNX, matey-mate
Cheers
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Is there JDubs in greek speking countries?
by Shazard inare there jw in greece?
i mean how do jw there push "this is wrong translation" argument, as everyone in greece knows greek better then anyone else could.
ofcourse koine is not the same as todays greek but anyway, i can't imagine that jw can push their argument about lousy translation of your native language!
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moggy lover
The latest census report published in the service year for 2006 reports 28,047 peak Wt followers in Greece.
How the hell did the WTS convince these guys?
Dunno.
Cheers
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17
Looking for info on the WTS development of baptism ?'s & requirement's
by jwfacts inin a recent thread blondie mentioned that the baptism questions were not introduced until the 1960s.
what do an interested person have to do prior to then in order to be allowed to be baptised?.
it got me thinking about the wts justification for the questions.
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moggy lover
Hi, Jwf, I'm not sure if this is the information That you are looking for, but here goes:
Ray Franz in his second book, ISOCF, adresses this issue on pgs 117-124, and here is a summary of his views. Initially, among Bible Stidents of Russell's day, no issue was taken up with people who had been baptized in some other denomination, as long as thy clearly understood its meaning, ie they were accountabe adults, and their baptism was by immersion. This position lasted for the first seven decades of the WTS [1879-1955]
As late as the July 1 WT of 1955, pg 412, the society stated that "Rebaptism was necessary only if the previous baptism was not in symbol of a dedication, or if it was not by immersion"
However, exactly a year later, in the July 1, 1956 WT [pg 406] this position was reversed, and now it became mandatory to be baptised in the WTS scheme of things. The rationale used in that WT, was that other religious organisations, although seeming to baptize in the name of "The Father, and the Son, and the holy spirit" yet did not recognize these ones as the Higher Powers [A view that even the WTS now rejects. From 1928-1961 the official position of the WTS was that Ro 13:1 referred to Jehovah and the Jesus]
Six months later, in the Dec 15 WT 1956, pg 763 in the now infamous QFR, the qualification was made that only those who had been baptized after 1918 needed to be rebaptized, for those immersed before that date, where ever it had been performed, the matter was left upto their conscience. Why 1918? Because, according to the article, that was the date when Christendom was officially rejected by Jehovah, hence anything done by them after that date was invalid.
The WTS has however been baptizing their own recruits since Russell's day, and until 1942, no public affirmation was required in the form of answering any questions before an audience. This began in 1942, when the first two questions asked were:
1 Do you believe in Jehovah God the Father, that salvation belongeth unto Jehovah, and that Christ Jesus is his Son, in whose blood your sins are washed away and by whom salvation comes to you from God?
2 Have you therefore confessed your sins to God, and asked for cleansing by Christ Jesus, and therefore turned away from sin and the world, and consecrated yourself without reservation to God, to do his will?
This form lasted until 1956, when the new requirement of rebaptism came out. The only major alteration was the introduction of the mention of the Holy Spirit, which as you can see, was not referred to in 1942, and a change from "consecration" to "dedication" The questions were now: [WT July 1 1956, pg 407]
1 Have you recognized yourself as a sinner before Jehovah God, who needs salvation, and have you acknowledged to him that this salvation proceeds from him the Father through his Son, Jesus Christ?
2 On the basis of this faith in God and his provision of salvation, have you dedicated yourself unreservedly to God to do his will henceforth as he reveals it to you through Jesus Christ and through the Bible under the enlightenment of the holy spirit?
Another, and the most revolutionary, change came about as a result of the June 1 WT 1985, where as has become well known, the recruit was to affirm publicly, his/her association with "God's spirit directed organisation"
The following is my comment, not RF's: I can see a clearly developed trend in the evloution of the public questions:
1 No Holy Spirit 2 Enlightenment of the holy spirit "through the Bible" [WT publications?] 3 All references to the holy spirit now replaced by the introduction of the "Spirit directed Organisation"
Hope this helps
Cheers
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31
New Testament support for the name Yahweh?
by WhatSexRU inexcuse me if this has been discussed before but im looking for evidence that any of the nt authors knew that the name yahweh (yahveh, jehovah, yhwh, or any variation) existed.
im testing a naive hypothesis that says that the nt authors were reading from the lxx and that they only saw kurios.
keep in mind im a complete novice and a (friendly) dangerous idiot.
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moggy lover
Nakissos and Dttp: Mea culpa on both counts. Yep it was 100 BC, and Countess is ambiguous.